Where does our dogs' food come from?

It seems that most rawfeeders are extra attuned to natural and holistic aspects of their pets' care. This extends to other animals and nature as well. We tend to be more conscious of our environment, the interconnectivity of all things alive, and our part within the complexity of life. It would be interesting to know which comes first - rawfeeding and then newfound awareness of life or do people start rawfeeding because of their existing holistic approach to life?
In any case, many of us have wondered at some point where do the animals we feed to our dogs come from. I have pondered that many a time. It is very important to know that the animals have been raised, kept, and slaughtered humanely. This goes for my diet as well, as much as I can try. It is my unshakable conviction that just because cows or pigs or sheep end up being eaten does not mean that they cannot be treated humanely and with  respect and killed in a considerate manner. Animals and all living beings, indeed, do have acquire their value based on their usefulness to us. They are intrinsic part of the complexity of life and need to be treated as such.
I am a member of rawfeeding email group in Maryland and this discussion came up. I am reposting several deeply thoughtful posts with the permission of their owners.

The thread started with my question about the slaughter of baby goats and their treatment prior. Here are the excellent and deeply thoughtful posts:

I just wanted to point out the fact that as many of the goats are being rehomed as possible and aren't being sent to a slaughter house or mistreated in any way. In the wild it is often the young (or sick) that are hunted because they aren't as fast or as strong. In China dog is eaten... This is difficult for us because of our culture. We have been raised with supermarkets and are so far removed from the actual food chain (it is often felt that the job of slaughtering animals is a "dirty" job) that we allow our moral concerns about things of this nature get into the way.

But, the goats are needed for milk so they won't be able to provide milk for their kids. Formula is an option but it's also an added expense. Space would also be an issue. If the farms that have these milking goats could keep them or needed them for their flock they would probably keep them. I think it's a good thing that's being done here. Look at all the problems we have with dogs, cats, rabbits, and horses (among other animals) without homes. People are making tons of money selling sub par food or "donating" it to humane societies to feed our ever sicker pet population that lives in cages hoping to be adopted some day by a loving family. Those families often don't do any research and continue to feed Purina, Hills, Iams...

I for one would rather know that the critters (although young) are being treated humanely, slaughtered humanely and not being forced to live a substandard life because we "feel bad" for them. They are a living being but I think the conversation on here has shown that people care. They are not willing to take animals that have been mistreated and they respect these animals. They also care for and respect their own animals so they want to feed them the best possible food that will actually nourish their body.

If you get food from the store you have none of these guarantees even if it is organic. The fact that there is an open dialog here with the individual who is going to be processing these creatures is an important thing. And the fact that the people here respect these living creatures enough to "vote with their dollars" is very impressive.

Dogs and cats are not herbivores. To raise them as such is in my opinion also an ethical question. If life can only be sustained and not nourished, is it truly worth living anyway? So why not feed them the best, most ethically raised and slaughtered meats possible?

I think it's naive to think that this is not something that happens regularly in big goat milk dairy operations. The main difference is that those critters are probably not handled so humanely nor are they used to nourish other life, they probably end up rendered and in some food as "rendered meat and bone meal." Food that likely does no more then sustain life in the poor critter that it's fed to (who more then likely has a slew of allergies or health issues).

Sorry for my rant! I was a vet tech for a stint.

Peace,
Wysteria



I like what Wysteria said.."The fact that there is an open dialog here with the individual who is going to be processing these creatures is an important thing." and I couldn't agree more.

We're dealing with life and death here no matter which way you look at it.  It's either the health and life of our dogs and cats or the health and life of those animals we decide to slaughter for that purpose.  It's a heart-wrenching thing to do and I have always lamented that it is such a sad thing that in carnivorous animals, one life depends on the sacrifice of another.  What I don't agree with is deeming one life more worthy because it's "cute".  I have had baby goats and I think they are the most adorable farm animal I've ever encountered.  But that does not mean the muddy pig should have less value.  Someone made the comment that pigs are extremely intelligent - more so than dogs by the way - yet we and our dogs happily feast on them.  What lines you must draw in order to feel "ok" about processing animals for food is a personal decision and certainly not something we should chastise each other for.  To call a conversation on the most humane way to slaughter a baby goat "disgusting" is a disservice to that animal.  These things must be discussed, with tact and respect, but thoroughly discussed nonetheless.

About a year ago, I began having some issue with the idea of feeding meat to both my family and my pets.  I couldn't stand the idea that animals were treated poorly, never knowing affection, never realizing the idea of personal space.  Only to die in fear and treated as if not a life but literally as a piece of meat.  I decided that I had no business eating meat unless I could personally experience raising, caring for, feeding and ultimately slaughtering what was to be set on my table.  This was simply a personal decision that was right for me.  We started with a single turkey and I cried and cried and cried the day we slaughtered him.  But when we sat down for that meal, it was with a deep appreciation that we nourished our bodies.  I knew that he had experienced a wonderful life and I knew he had not experienced pain or fear and, most importantly in my mind, I knew his name and I validated his life by my struggle.  Since then, we choose meat for our animals and for ourselves only if we have personally raised it or if someone we know has a verifiable way of humanely raising and slaughtering them.  I am at peace with my decision  and I was happy to see a discussion on humane ways to slaughter the goats.  I believe that animals do not have a sense of time as humans do.  They have instincts to cause them to run, to find food, to sleep, etc as a result of a chemical reaction - not because they comprehend death - that is unique to humans.  So whether it is 15 yrs or 15 days, I don't think the time matters as much as what happened during that time.

I sincerely hope these conversations can continue so we all know and realize what goes into keeping our animal healthy and so we can be reminded of the sacrifices that are made for the lives we choose to nourish.

My 2 cents anyway!
Jana

Thanks Wysteria,

The slaughter of animals should never be considered a dirty job. It is a heavy responsibility in my opinion to humanely kill an animal in whatever way works best. And not a job I find mentally easy to do.

This situation is the same for a dairy and their calves. Female calves are used as replacement heifers so are worth a great deal. Male dairy calves are pretty useless and bring little money at the salebarns. It also takes a long time and a lot of feed to get a male dairy steer to a decent slaughter weight. Not so long ago, it was standard to shoot male calves as soon as they were born as the gas it took to get them to market would not be covered with their sales. Hence, if I can ‘rescue’ a few, and raise them in as normal a way as I can and sell them as veal then I am giving them the life they were born for along with providing humans and pets healthy clean food.

I think most of these kids that are being killed to provide sustenance for our pets are mostly bucklings which are as worthless as male dairy calves as in this country goat meat is not a common meat for humans to eat. If goat was more widely consumed you would see more bucks being raised for meat at a heavier age.

Horses, now there is another problem. A few of those who wanted to end the slaughter of horses in the USA are now realizing the problems that have now been created. People are forced to keep horses as there is no outlet for them to dispose of them for whatever reasons. Lots of these ppl can’t afford to feed the horses any longer nor do they want to feed them. Horses are being neglected. Horse rescues are way overloaded. Horses are now being shipped to Mexico, enduring inhumane transportation and then more inhumane handling during slaughter. Why not use horsemeat to feed our pets?? Horses are lucky to get 20.00 at a salebarn right now. My horse is pretty worthless right about now, but she is worth more than the 20.00 I would get for her. But don’t tell her that!

All my babies are cute, every one of them, and none cuter than the other, and all have personalities, but we can’t keep them all just because of that.

We, as a people need to understand that all animals are used as food somewhere in this world, and not have a hissy if it does not meet what we deem to be ‘pet food’ that comes nicely packed and delivered to our door.

Just my 2 cents,

Katherine

THE WAY FOOD USED TO TASTE

www.LegacyManorFarm.com  (Maryland)

Thank you Jana, that is exactly how I feel as well. I bawled my eyes out the first time I took a steer to load him up. I couldn’t raise lambs for years as one year I looked in their eyes as they were loading up and realized they really had no clue they were going to be killed.

I’m mostly over that now, over 25 years later, but I still care very much about how all my stock are treated here, whether they live one day or many years. I have a 15 yr old cow that I have separated from the herd and have her in with my goats to make life easier on her as I don’t think she will last the winter. My decision now is, do I feed her to the dogs when she dies? Or not. I won’t know until that happens. I don’t want to waste the meat, but will the fact that I’ve had her since before she was born, and been a very good cow, play a hand in the decision. Do I want her body violated??? It is just a body. I hope she is not bred, that would get to me.

I’ve had baby everything’s here that I’ve struggled to keep alive thru their first hours or days. Just trying to help them take their first breath at times. Sometimes winning, sometimes not.

A lot of people think animals ‘think’. They don’t, they react to stimulus. Hungry, cold, hot, tired, mother caring for her newborn. All instinctual. No fore thought involved. But that doesn’t mean they should be treated inhumanely as we think of it. They really don’t know they are being treated inhumanely. They just live day to day. They just try to run away when that 2 x 4 comes at them again and again. I will have to say that the instinct to live is as strong in animals, if not stronger, as it is in humans.

Without death, there would be no life. Without life, there would be no death.

My thoughts as a longtime livestock farmer,

Katherine

THE WAY FOOD USED TO TASTE

www.LegacyManorFarm.com  (Maryland)

prey model diet and why

As rawfeeding became more popular, it evolved with increasing knowledge and awareness of what is appropriate diet for carnivores. Years of observation of wild canids yielded data that were adopted for formulating canine raw diets. Since dogs and wolves are very closely related as far as their digestive tracts and dentition is concerned, what wild canids eat is considered the gold standard of raw feeding.
Modeled after the predominant type of diet consumed naturally, this new style of raw feeding is called the prey model. Most carnivores naturally eat whole animals, from mice and birds all the way up the food chain to large herbivores. In the process, the entire prey is consumed, either in one meal or over several feedings, depending on the size of the catch. This includes muscle meat, bones, organs, hide, fat, tendons and ligaments, and the rest. The general proportions are about 80% meat, 10% edible bone, and about 10% organs, including liver, brain, kidneys, and such. They can comprise one meal or be balanced over 2-3 weeks, as practical. Not every meal has to be balanced but the diet should add up over several weeks to maintain the general ratios.
Prey model diets aim to restore the correct source of nutrition, in its ideal form, and in the right proportions. There are many commercial raw diets, which we will touch upon later, that attempt to do just that. They generally include the right proportions from a single source in one meal, with many different sources available. The most popular ones are beef, chicken, turkey, lamb, rabbit but almost any type of meat can be found on the market - venison, buffalo (actually bison), duck, beaver, ostrich, and even some more exotic animals. The key is to maintain the general balance.
Following this model offers a balanced, natural diet that dogs are supremely adopted to eating. The diet has the optimal amounts of meat, fat, bone (correct calcium:phosphorus ratio), minerals, vitamins, fiber,and even indigestible matter to support digestion, metabolism, and all body functions. As we discussed in the previous blog, dogs have no nutritional need for carbohydrates and this model offers none. In nature, canids might consume some digested stomach contents (popular myth, largely disproven through observations), eat grass, herbs, and other plant matter but not in any appreciable quantity . Thus prey model does not include grains or plant matter in any great quantities, if at all.
There are different forms of prey diets available - whole animals, ground whole animals, separate components that are mixed in the right balance. The choice is largely based on availability, affordability, and not in the least on one's comfort with feeding whole furry creatures or recognizable chunks. Many raw feeders are also not comfortable with feeding meaty bones and prefer to feed ground form only. There are many choices, none of them necessarily right or wrong. The key is to feed the right balance of meat, organs, and bone over few weeks and offer some variety of sources.
Feeding meaty bones offers numerous benefits over ground diet but as I always say, something is better than nothing and even ground raw diet is superior to kibble. And many raw feeders become more comfortable over time and will eventually end up feeding meaty bones.
Here is a link to an awesome photographic 'cook book' for meaty bones: http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes

Carbohydrates for canines - yeah or nay?

I will jump ahead a little in response to a question in a previous post - how to add a weight to a dog that is eating well but not gaining? Assuming that all medical issues, such as EPI, have been thoroughly ruled out, it might be a nutritional issue. I will share my thoughts on the topic ahead of plan.
It is commonly accepted in rawfeeding circles that dogs do not require carbohydrates unless pregnant, nursing or convalescing. They can turn high quality fats and proteins into adequate metabolic fuel for all normal bodily needs. Wild canids, a commonly followed 'gold standard' for rawfeeders, do not consume carbohydrates in any appreciable amounts. We used to think that wolves eat partly digested stomach contents (source of plant matter and carbs) of their large ungulate prey but years of observation do not support that belief. This validates nutritional studies that do not identify carbohydrates as nutritional requirement for dogs under normal conditions.
That said, there are special circumstances that warrant addition of good carbs to dog's diet. As mentioned, it would be pregnancy, lactation, convalescence, or just a metabolic need of some dogs.
I am not sure why some dogs, especially growing ones, need carbs but it is not uncommon. I am dealing with the same need with my older girl Nyssa but for a reason of advanced age -she is 13.5 years old and needs easily digestible sources of energy.
Carbohydrates should be in a good form, probably complex, the same as is true for humans. Most common sources are veggies and fruit and grains. Many good foods include various amounts and types of both vegetables and fruit and frequently stay away from grains. I would suggest easily digestible veggies, fruit and/or whole grains as a way to supplement a dog in addition to his/her regular food.
BARF-style raw diets contain good amount of plant matter and would likely be a good option for a dog that needs to gain weight, all else being equal.
I will suggest some specific sources of good carbs in my next post. Please let me know if you have any suggestions or experience, comments!
Thank you.
Michelle

it all started with BARF

Since we go back to 1998 or so, the most information available in the emerging trend of raw feeding was on BARF diets - biologically appropriate raw food. I read and researched the topic and fed a combination of meaty bones, organs, as well as fruit and veggies and some dairy products.
Commercial diets were not readily available way back when in the age of raw feeding dinosaurs <G> so I made my own veggie/fruit mess and added it to raw ground meat of all kinds. Making the mixture involved buying three leaves of every green thing found in the produce section (yes, some funny looks there) and spending up to two hours blending those to produce green goo. Even the blender used to cringe. LOL I would freeze it in relatively flat shape and actually break off pieces for individual feedings as necessary.
I will get more into it but nowdays I do not use any fruit or veggies, they are not readily digested by dogs and probably not very beneficial. Do they hurt any? As long as the rest of the diet is proportional and balance, no. Do they help? Probably not.
Next - more on raw feeding. <G> Any special requests?

intro - what made us start with rawfeeding

My first Shiloh girl, Nyssa, came home with me in April 1997 with a bag of Purina Puppy Chow from the breeder. I eventually switched to better brands of dog food but she was not a steady eater and for the first several months was a skinny, lanky puppy with a pointed nose. <G> (This is a no-no for Shiloh). Eventually I cycled through all the good brands while Nyssa would stop eating for up to three days at the time. We also started our search and rescue training at that time and she needed the energy.

At my wit's end, I started researching alternative food and actually discovered alternative medicine right about the same time. Feeding raw food made a natural sense, that is what dogs and canids have evolved to eat over thousands of years. The adaptation to thrive on raw diet has not changed with domestication. After reading up on different diets, I did not hesitate to switch and did it 'cold-turkey'. Nyssa gained about 7 lbs of much needed pure muscle in three weeks and my picky eater was gone forever. And we have never looked back again.